Friday 24 November 2006

Run, Hypocrites, Run

As the Bosnian Pyramid circus unfolds, many of the people who participated in it and substantially contributed to its exaggerated publicity are beginning to wash their hands and point fingers in other directions.

 

So is the case of the Foundation's expert for satellite imagery, Mr. Amer Smailbegovic. Even though he had provided and formulated the arguments for the theory of the Bosnian Pyramid Complex and co-authored the well-known *reconstruction* of it, when approached by the Science Magazine this September, Mr. Smailbegovic suddenly reached for the Gullibility Mask, reducing his role in the Project to the minimum:

 

„"I noticed that the area has a peculiar triangular-sided feature you don't see too often in a temperate environment," says Smailbegovic, who analyzed satellite imagery for Osmanagic. Thermal and radar imaging also made the hill seem "out of the ordinary," he says. So Smailbegovic wrote to Osmanagic that "there are anomalies present in your area of interest, and you may have something there. I suggest you find yourself an archaeologist and geologist to help you validate the area." But "the next thing I know," Smailbegovic says, "there was a headline in the Bosnian papers: Satellite imagery confirms Osmanagic's discovery of pyramids in Bosnia." This would prove to be the start of a barrage of "sensationalism," he says.“

 

What Mr. Smailbegovic somehow forgot to mention to the Science Magazine journalist is his visits with the regional politicians in April, when he – as a representative of Mr. Osmanagic's Foundation – had been convincing the regional political establishment of the existence of collosal structures in the Visoko valley:

 

„Dr. Smailbegovic explained the scientific argumentation reached at the beginning of the research, but also the most recent discoveries from a few days ago which clearly show that beneath these hills in the Visoko area there indeed are collosal buildings hiding, and they do not belong to the medieval period, but are much older.“

 

Other people involved with the Bosnian Pyramid Project seem to develop memory losses as well, while complaining about the Bosnian media sensationalism, portraying themselves as gullible victims of Mr. Osmanagic and dealing lessons on how Bosnians should deal with the shame that will undoubtedly come. Here it is in recent writing by Ms. Colette Dowell:

 

„Television, new papers and websites (Bosnia News, piramidasunca.com and others) announced our arrival in Bosnia as the "American Superstars," who would credit the claims of Semir's pyramids and Bosnia would receive its glory. It was a terrible position for us to be placed in. Semir would make a point of introducing us to investors and politicians and have us all stand around posing together for our pictures. The media was reporting and editing words Dr. Schoch never spoke and made it seem as if he was agreeing with Semir or that the excavations were a scientific challenge and he needed more time to evaluate them. The media even reported Dr. Schoch had a twinkle in his eye! We were always polite but never, never did Dr. Schoch agree with Semir's claims or make any of those statements as I was right there with him the whole time and I also was being interviewed as well. Dr. Schoch and I avoided many interviews, we knew what was going on. We were being used, exploited and given the 'red carpet' treatment as we were told many times to "gain our favor."“

 

It seems that Ms. Colette Dowell has forgotten that both she and Mr. Robert Schoch were warned about this superstar-treatment and possibility of their arrival to Bosnia being twisted for propaganda purposes, in an open letter that was sent to them before they went to Bosnia:

 

„Your upcoming visit to Visoko has been splashed all over the Bosnian media, following the euphoric announcement by the Archaeological Park: Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun Foundation, giving out the impression that the sole fact of your decision to come to Bosnia means that the 'pyramids' do actually exist. The Foundation is not so careful in their wording as dr. Schoch is in his letter addressing this visit  – to the Bosnian public, the Foundation conveys that you are „joining the team of experts and the work on explaining the mystery of the Bosnian Pyramids Valley." The release makes a point that your visit is „just one of those by leading international experts who work on the process of international verification of the geo-archaeological research in the Bosnian Pyramids Valley." All of this would be in sharp contrast to the purpose of obtaining an objective, unbiased and independent insight, as pointed out by dr. Schoch in his above mentioned letter.“

 

To this letter, Ms. Dowell replied with how very much she enjoyed looking at the provided images and „reading up on some of the background information“ that was sent. To answer at least partially to the question of „who is going to rehabilitate the good reputation of the gullible, misleaded Bosnian people involved in the "greatest archaeological project"“, I know who is not going to bother themselves with that.

 

Run, hypocrites, run.

Posted by stultitia at 17:01:38 | Permanent Link | Comments (11) |
Comments
1 - Hey Stultitia, All,


Today I posted this on the forum (comment 831, possibly already deleted .....)

http://avdibeg.dk/blog/?p=104&cp=84#comments
Pyramid found - in the heart of Bosnia!! at Avdibegović, Dino F.


(comment 830) avdibeg said:
November 26th, 2006 at 12:14 pm

““Ghislain,
I will tolerate your last comment, but I am asking you to be more factual than just “in your head”. Every kind of opinion is accepted here, but let us maintain a certain standard of factuality and seriousness. “”

(I only commented (nr. 829); ‘Bosnian pyramids’ ? I’m afraid they are only in the head of Osmanagic …..)


Dino,

Below I quote a comment of a pyramid-believer ;

http://avdibeg.dk/blog/?p=104&cp=81#comments
Pyramid found - in the heart of Bosnia!! at Avdibegović, Dino F.

(comment 806) Aca Says:
October 2nd, 2006 at 6:11 pm

““Rape of true archeology, Ghislain? You have no clue what archelogy is! You don’t even know where the words come from at this moment before you go dig it up! Have you ever done any archeological work? Piihh right!
You are a retarted person. “”


Her/his last sentence ‘You are a retarted person ‘ is without doubt an insult towards me. Well, nowhere you wrote to her/him a warning, while the little thing I wrote about Osmanagic is not at all comparable with the heavy insult I got from “Aca”, to whom I never addressed an insult or whatsoever. “Aca” doesn’t even know how to spell her/his insults correctly ..... That says enough about her/his intelligence-level.

The fact that you did not respond with a warning towards “Aca” (a “believer”) and that you warned me because I (a non- “believer”) dared say something against Osmanagic, proves that, as on many other fora, pyramid-believers are privileged and are allowed to insult people who do not believe in those “pyramids”.

But I don’t care. It only proves that you do not moderate your forum in a professional/upright way. You can do whatever you want with my membership, it really doesn’t matter. I was never interested in “the Bosnian pyramids”, only in fierce objecting everyone who believes in/approves this fraudulent farce. Because a fraudulent farce it is. I’m very sure, in a year or so, when still no uncovered TRUE pyramid is found and all that the foundation can show is the “pyramid” they shaped themselves on the “pyramid of the moon”, people will see clear .....

The fact that you privilege “Bosnian pyramid-(Osmanagic)believers” and the fact that you are a Bosnian yourself, speaks for itself .....

Regards,
Ghislain (Ronald). (Comment this)

Written by: Ronald at 2006/11/27 - 16:02:14
2 - Dear Ronald, I am not sure if your comment here has anything to do with the related post above... By now any pyramid-skeptic has experienced what you described, some kind of censoring imposed from the pyramid-believers - insults, banning from forums, erasing of comments from blogs, etc. It is their standard procedure in the face of accumulating facts and this should not bother anyone any more, it only establishes a routine that tells more about the pyramid-believers than anything else. Therefore, please, do not worry, and - PLEASE - certainly do not judge all Bosnians like you do in the last sentence in your comment. I am a Bosnian too. We cannot counterbalance prejudice with more prejudice ;-) (Comment this)

Written by: stultitia at 2006/11/27 - 16:56:15
3 - Ronald,
You should be the last person to complain about being insulted. Remember your insulting and hateful message to one of the posters on the bosnian-pyramid.com forum? Just to remind you Mr. Ronald. This is what you wrote.

“BB1
It is proven that pyramids don't exist and if you still believe in them, I will say it again - you are stupid. Accept the fact that there are no pyramids in Bosnia. There never were and never will be any. And don't lie that you're not muslim, I see right through you. You are probably one hard-core muslim, one of those that celebrated the 9/11 attacks or the train bombing in Spain. Maybe you are typing from the safety of your cave in Afganistan. Found any pyramids there? Or maybe you were busy helping your brothers in Lebanon? ”

So, you should shut up and crawl back under your rock.

To Stultitia, keep up your good work! (Comment this)

Written by: Alchemist at 2006/11/28 - 13:28:14
4 - Alchemist,


I never wrote this. It was manufactered to produce false 'reasons' to bann me from the forum, because I was a hard-core non-believer. And that is the truth. Many people on the forum you mentionned have been banned without good reason.


Ronald. (Comment this)

Written by: Ronald at 2006/11/30 - 12:05:08 in reply to: 3
5 - stultitia,

I know you are Bosnian. And I do not judge all Bosnians the same. Why should I ? Simply because I wrote something about one certain Bosnian ? How many times I wrote that the Bosnian people are being used and are being mislead (and still are) by Osmanagic and his foundation ? But I also know (and you too) that there àre many Bosnians who approve what Osmanagic is doing. Don't judge me wrong, because this happened earlier to me, by the dispersal of a 'comment' I never wrote on the forum www.bosnian-pyramid.com !

Regards,
Ronald. (Comment this)

Written by: Ronald at 2006/11/30 - 12:18:41 in reply to: 2
6 - Ronald,

I do think you wrote those insults. You called that guy stupid publicly IIRC.

For some reason you are obsessed with this project. It seems that you participate in all forums that have something to do with so-called Bosnian pyramids. You sound like a broken record repeating the same comments over and over again. You were banned from the bosnian-pyramid.com forum and than you returned under different name. When you got busted you still claimed that Ghislain wasn’t not Ronald :-). Your behaviour is plainly childish. You should know that you can’t change opinion of “true-believers” on that forum. You can only make fun of them. Obviously, some people on that forum are just trying to make some money from the scam called “Bosnian Pyramids”. I didn’t want to participate in that scam and I stoped posting on that forum. The saddest fact of all in this scam is that the most of the loudest supporters of so-called pyramids on that forum (and other forums) are neither Bosnians nor citizens of Bosnia-Herzegovina. This could be said for “experts” involved in this “project” too. So, as a Bosnian it is strange to be on the receiving end of such misdirected prejudice that you obviously have against Bosnians.

For those interested in the Bosnian history below is a link to digitised book “Poviest Bosne do propasti kraljevstva” written by V. Klaic in 1882. http://okano.djesi.ba/~alen/site/(V.Klaic,%201882)%20Poviest%20Bosne%20do%20propasti%20kraljevstva.zip.
Book is in Bosnian.

If anyone can post some links to resources on the Bosnian history it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Alchemist (Comment this)

Written by: Alchmist at 2006/12/01 - 11:39:46 in reply to: 4
7 - Sorry,

Link to that book wasn’t displayed properly in my previous post. Here it is again.

http://okano.djesi.ba/~alen/site/(V.Klaic,%201882)%20Poviest%20Bosne%20do%20propasti%20kraljevstva.zip

or go to this site:

http://okano.djesi.ba/~alen/site/Bosnia.html

Cheers (Comment this)

Written by: Alchemist at 2006/12/01 - 11:47:12
8 - Thank you, Alchemist. Obviously, that is quite an old title :-) I've recently mentioned another work, very instructive, by John V.A. Fine: The Early Medieval Balkans and The Late Medieval Balkans. It has some advantages, being waaaay more recent than Klaic's and also being in English. Plus it gives a broader look, not only Bosnia, but the whole Balkans context, which is important.

Cheers. (Comment this)

Written by: stultitia at 2006/12/01 - 14:00:12
9 - Alchemist,

Well Alchemist, think what you want to think. I can't do anything about it. My conscience is clear. I did not write that to BB1, only the little part that he is stupid to believe in Bosnian pyramids (after all the indisputable contra-evidence we all have seen). The rest of the message is not mine. And I received multiple replies from believers that were much more insulting than my little remark ...

You wrote ; 'It seems that you participate in all forums that have something to do with so-called Bosnian pyramids. You sound like a broken record repeating the same comments over and over again. You were banned from the bosnian-pyramid.com forum and than you returned under different name.'

You are exaggerating. I still participate now and then on one single forum. 'The same comments' ? Well, I know a few people who are writing/have written an awful lot more on 'Bosnian pyramids' than I did ...
A different name ? I am not the only one who did that ... And yes, I used a different name, because I found it so bad that someone wrote a nasty comment in my name. If it is my comment, why is it not signed by me ? I signed every comment with 'Ronald' and 'regards'. Why did they make a separate topic from it, called 'I am amazed' ... ? A bit too striking, isn't it ? They could just have banned me, instead of making so much trouble about it.

The second time I was banned from the mentionned forum was because I only said the truth, namely that Osmanagic is a swindler. And I do not regret being banned, because actually I was bored for a few weeks already ...

I have not the intention to use Stultitia's forum to reply to your attacks. So, this was my last comment to you.

Regards,
Ronald. (Comment this)

Written by: Ronald at 2006/12/01 - 15:46:40 in reply to: 6
10 - Thanks Stultia.

I haven’t read Fine’s book “The Early Medieval Balkans”, so I can’t comment on its content. I went through its table of contents…no mention of Bosnia at all. I’ve found Klaic’s book quite comprehensive and objective. It’s certainly not affected by prejudices of historians from our neighbouring countries. People interested in the history of Bosnia could learn a lot from this book.
I’ve found this interesting article (in English) on the origin of the medieval Bosnian Royal Dynasty Kotromanic
www.transoxiana.org/Eran/Articles/karatay.html

Cheers (Comment this)

Written by: Alchemist at 2006/12/02 - 13:43:05 in reply to: 8
11 - Hi Alchemist, you might want to try with the Index rather than with the Table of contents. ;-) There's quite a lot about Bosnia in Fine's both books. Thanx for the link, I'll read it. Cheers! (Comment this)

Written by: stultitia at 2006/12/02 - 14:42:41
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